For follow-up discussion and general commentary on the topic. Comments are sorted chronologically.
Raymond F. Beaton
If, as Houdman concludes, monergism is the more powerfully supported posture, then is there any purpose in evangelism? What did Christ have in mind when he proclaimed the "Great Commission". Were and are centuries of working in the mission fields a misguided waste of time and resources? After all, those people are either saved or cannot be saved, depending on decisions already made by God. If I accept that, can I then divert my Church offerings to payments on a BMW convertible, scheme or bully my way to a better job, ignore moral restraints? After all, I am either saved or not saved and I can't tell which it is!
Raymond F. Beaton
My earlier comment was written to provoke a reaction and does in no way suggest an action plan. If I do not redirect my efforts to my own creature comforts, it is because I love the Lord and want to do his bidding. How does one love a distant God who made eternal decisions for him before he had any comprehension of the issues? I very much prefer the God who through Christ says: "Behold I stand at the door and knock. For whoever opens it, I will come in and sup......"; and the God of John 3:16 (whoever believes). When God offers the gift of salvation and allows me to accept it or reject it, that in no way diminishes the power or the love behind the offer. As an aside, it also makes more sense to my tiny brain.
Mary Hutchman
I am saddened to my core for those who believe in predestination. It is unscriptural, and evangelism and the great commission of Jesus Christ would indeed be pointless, meaning the last words of my Savior before he ascended to heaven were foolish and pointless. God forbid that this would be so! We would essentially be reduced to a race of unthinking robots who have no choice in receiving Jesus christ!
My soul rises up in protest to this view. If this this is the view of this study, then I am out as it is unscriptural. Please respond as I am shocked, Michael Houdman and dismayed in my spirit. If this is not appropriate for a public comment you have my email. I left a church with tears of sorrow over Calvinism, which said my severely mentally handicapped son would never see heaven unless God had foreordained and chosen him. Please explain, I beg of you!
Michael Burch
There is no disharmony between God's sovereign intervention in the lives of mankind, and God calling us to evangelize.
When God condescended to rescue His people from bondage in Egypt, was it His sovereign will for it to be so or not? If so, why didn't He just snap His fingers and have His people immediately transported from Egypt to the Promised Land? Because He most often uses human agents to accomplish His will. That's why there still needs to be a commitment to evangelism and Christ's great commission.
Raymond F. Beaton
While in Egyptian bondage, His people had become spiritually tainted by pagan practices. The 40 year exodus was necessary to retrain them and purge the paganism from those who survived the exodus, but also to raise up a new generation that had never been in bondage. Even so, this was a stubborn, willful people who had to be hit on the head again and again by God and they still did not get it. You may call that "evangelism", but, if so, they had pretty good evangelists, God and Moses. I wouldn't agree with using that as an example of evangelism. I agree with you otherwise, Michael. We are to be the arms, legs and tongue of God to showcase Christ to the world.
Michael Burch
Hi Raymond,
You misunderstood my comment. Your question was:
"If, as Houdman concludes, monergism is the more powerfully supported posture, then is there any purpose in evangelism? What did Christ have in mind when he proclaimed the "Great Commission". Were and are centuries of working in the mission fields a misguided waste of time and resources? After all, those people are either saved or cannot be saved, depending on decisions already made by God."
If you read my comment carefully, I was attempting to answer your question by pointing out an example of God accomplishing His sovereign will (the freeing of His people from bondage in Egypt) via His use of human agents (i.e. Moses, Aaron, Joshua, etc.), God accomplishes His sovereign will in the salvation of His elect via human agents as well. Hence, Jesus' call for us to evangelize. At no point did I attempt to equate the Exodus with evangelism, other than the fact that God used/uses human agents in both circumstances.
Michael
Jeffrey Monahan
The Word is profound; it is, after all, God's revelation to us. The Creator speaks to the created. One can read the Bible hundreds of times but still be uncertain as to the meaning. The tension inherent in trying to come to terms with the 'truth' will continue until we come into complete knowledge. When Jesus judges us to be in right-standing with Him then - and only then, I believe - we are saved. And we can have a laugh with Jesus about our - man's - great debates.
Here are some points to consider:
God is love and wants us all to be saved;
-is evangelism relevant or necessary if God has already selected who will be saved?;
- who would be more likely to brag: the person believing he/she has been chosen to be saved by God, before time, or the person led by Holy Spirit in a journey to salvation?;
- is free will conditional, elastic?;
and, over the centuries God has gradually opened our eyes further to what He intends us to understand; surely we have moved on in knowledge and wisdom since the time of Calvin and Arminius.
To conclude, I suggest that we each place more importance on our relationship with Jesus than worrying about whose theology is 'more' correct. Be a doer of Jesus' words and you will surely meet Him in blissful circumstance.
Nils Jansma
Just a quick comment regarding this issue. Most discussions omit a couple of very important components. One is the Devil and the other is free-will. In Job’s case, the Devil challenged his free-will motives. (Job 1:9-11) In the Apostles case, the Devil apparently made a similar challenge (Luke 23:31-32) In our case, the Devil stands before the throne of God and accuses us of something probably related to our free-will decisions. (Revelation 12:10) None of this would make any sense if we weren’t personally involved in our salvation, in my opinion. This would especially be the case with regard to Adam and Eve who are the principle reason why we are discussing this subject. And finally, who made Lucifer a Devil, God or Lucifer’s free-will? Just a thought to consider.
June Williams
Jeffery Monahan says: To conclude, I suggest that we each place more importance on our relationship with Jesus than worrying about whose theology is 'more' correct. Be a doer of Jesus' words and you will surely meet Him in blissful circumstance."
I totally agree! I love to read what others have to say about different subjects concerning our Lord and Master. But as Nils Jansma brought out we also have Satan to contend with! While there is nothing wrong with studying other views on the Bible we must never forget that what we need to know, all we need to know is in God's word and studying his word will get us where we need to be. Just my humble opinion. God Bless!!