Is there any truth to the theory that there are "genetically-programmed sinners"? If so, can genetically-programmed sinners get to heaven?
A Christian friend suggested that psychopaths, homosexuals, and presumably others are genetically programmed to their sinful lifestyles.
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Asked 6 days ago
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Ainsley Chalmers
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For follow-up discussion and general commentary on the topic. Comments are sorted chronologically.
Shirley H
I would like to know the Bible verses that your friend gave you. What is the reason for the statement?
Mark Vestal
Sin does not damn someone for eternity, just as lack of sin is not what saves. Lack of faith is what "keeps one from heaven".
I would argue that Scripture states all humanity is a genetically programmed race of sin. That's why we need Christ and Him crucified...for us. "Where sin abounded, grace did much more abound". We have a hard time understanding the full capacity of God's grace, but the promise is eternal life by God's grace through having faith alone in Christ alone. How well one performs post-salvation (after having faith in Christ) does not affect their positional standing with God. It may affect eternal reward, but not their salvation.
Too many place their faith in themselves (in their own righteousness) for salvation, but salvation is "not of ourselves", it is our recognition of God's righteousness, on our behalf (as is seen through the life, death, and resurrection of Jesus Christ, or us).
So yes, if someone has the capacity to believe, and they truly do believe, they will 100% "make it to heaven". Wasn't Saul of Tarsus a "psychopath"? Just saying.
Shirley H
So reading your very interesting comment, I have a couple questions. Why would God genetically program us to sin?
Also, since when is someone who is zealous for God a "psychopath"... of course unless you mean that in a complimentary way?
Ainsley Chalmers
I proposed this question because certain Christians suggested that some cannot help themselves because of their DNA. Humans always make excuses for their sinful actions. As the Bible points out, we have all inherited the sin gene from Adam. When we come to Christ, he inserts his saving gene into our inherited sin gene and turns it off. In short, we’re born again with the Christ gene controlling us. Praise our mighty God and Saviour Jesus Christ.
Mark Vestal
Shirley, God created humanity (which is sinful by nature). I would answer "why" because He wants our free-will love. He gave us the choice to obey or to not. It is when we realize we need His love, grace, forgiveness that we seek Him. We find it through Christ at the cross, but we wouldn't need Him, the Truth, the Light if it were not for the darkness that we must first traverse. I believe God wants true love in return for the true love He gave us.
Paul, regarding his zeal:
Rom 10:1-3
"Brethren, my heart's desire and prayer to God for Israel is, that they might be saved.
2 For I bear them record that they have a zeal of God, but not according to knowledge.
3 For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God."
Phil 3:4-8
"Though I might also have confidence in the flesh. If any other man thinketh that he hath whereof he might trust in the flesh, I more:
5 Circumcised the eighth day, of the stock of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, an Hebrew of the Hebrews; as touching the law, a Pharisee;
6 Concerning zeal, persecuting the church; touching the righteousness which is in the law, blameless.
7 But what things were gain to me, those I counted loss for Christ.
8 Yea doubtless, and I count all things but loss for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord: for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and do count them but dung, that I may win Christ."
Mark Vestal
I'm sure you recall what Les Feldick used to accurately say: "We're not sinners because we sin, we sin...because we're sinners!". Thus why I stated we're genetically programmed to do so. It's who we are. Correct??
Shirley H
Mark, agree that we sin because we are sinners. However, I believe that God created humans with free will, like Himself.
I do not believe that there is such a thing as a "sin gene." God gave us the option to accept or reject. I think people always look for a way to justify their decisions.
I love Paul! He is so human! He was a zealot for Christ! We learn so much from his writings.
When we truly accept Christ, we live to honor Him. We have a new way of seeing, because the Holy Spirit now becomes our guide.
It is not about a "sin gene."
Ainsley, Genesis 4:6: "So the Lord said to Cain, 'Why are you angry? And why has your countenance fallen? If you do well, will you not be accepted? And if you do not do well, sin lies at the door. And its desire is for you, but you should rule over it.'"
Notice, "its desire is for you." You decide. To be alive is to face temptation. We choose.
We is the image of God in the human? I believe that God in His love made symbols, replicas so to speak of Himself. We have a conscience, we are to care for each other and see God in all his creation. We are to be a reflection. Moral and ethical.
My Bible has genealogies. I can't find a "sin gene.". Maybe my Bible is too old...
We may " Be angry, and do not sin. Meditate within your heart on your bed and be still.". Psalm 4:4
Man is indeed flesh, God is Spirit. However we choose, flesh or spirit.
Mark Vestal
Thank you for the thoughtful comment, Shirley! I do not disagree. Just to clarify, the "sin gene" statement was an analogy to human nature (not a literal 'you shall sin' component installed by God. Our nature from birth is to sin. Our new found spiritual life is to fight our natural sinful urges, (we are in agreement on that).
Regarding my statement on Paul being a "psychopath" was in reference to his actions (his admitted error in his prideful religious "zeal") prior to Christ. The way Paul speaks of his (and others) zeal leads me to believe he would probably agree with my statement (we can ask him together some day!! lol). Regardless...yes! I love Paul too! He is our "pattern" and our direct apostle. I would not have ever understood where I stand with God if Christ had not gifted us Paul. Thanks for the chat!