For follow-up discussion and general commentary on the topic. Comments are sorted chronologically.
kel gens
I may also add, thoughout these court proceedings of alleged domestic abuse allegations of "so called" spirtital abuse" , it makes me ponder on many scriptures, for ex: Christ says, to give the cloak to the one who ask...he aslo mentions the court system and the lawyers as "non rightous"...Paul also commands a "wife shall not leave her husband...scripture also speaks about making others commiting sin in various ways, the bloodshed will be on those hands....It is very, very easy in todays world to allege domestic abuse, further, the one who alleges it does not even have to come foreword with any evidence at all....all they have to do is say the magic words " I live in fear"....This to me, is the lowest form of life that could ever come about man on this earth. If anyone finds themselves in this perdicament, there is not a whole lot that one can do to defend themselves. You are guilty until proven innocence. There are many perks to alleging abuse....one gets full rights to the children and the house. One can go crazy not being able to have his god given children with him. All you readers out there, I need scripture feed back....I have "never" been outspoken with the person I call my wife, nor have I never laid a on her. I firmly believe the allegations are a "scare tactic" for me to cross over to her way of beliefs/thinking.....this in itself is not of Bibilcal manner....
Seth Freeman
Well, we know from Matthew 5 and 19 that the only possible way for two Christians to get a divorce without it being sin is for adultery. So I would be interested too in hearing what "spiritual abuse" is. I can't recall coming across that term in Scripture.
kel gens
I am with you as well Seth...I too have not come across any scritpture that dwells on Spirital Abuse, or any form thereof. Is scripture being manipulated to ones own liking? I am in a spot now, "courts" and have been given an ultimatum from my so called wife, if I do not adhere to her beliefs, then we cannot still be married. If I cave into this line of thinking and stand my ground, I will loose my children, the house, and pay ungodly child support...."due to the fact there is no judge will put chidlren in with a so called abusive parent" ...as this saga continues, I have pointed out many scriptures that support my position, however, to cite scripture in a court of law is like talking to a fence post...All thoughts are welcome
John Krysiuk
When you use a word like disagree and attach it to a term like abuse a lot of ground in between is being left unexplored and unrevealed or am I missing something? I'm new here.
John Krysiuk
What scripture is causing the friction to that depth?
kel gens
it is certain acts amongst the church that I refuse to let my children acknoledge...ex: there are swingers group in the church, divorce is not condoned, pregnancy amongst the youth runs rampent, further, the service is a praise service rather than a educational service...one either fits in or you dont, its that simple....I choose not to associate with such, further, I declare that my children not be exposed to such either....when scripture is read to support my position, it falls on deaf ears....the minister has no spine to educate the people...
Rev. Calvin Banks
Psalms 37:25, The righteous will not be forsaken; even though we are persecuted by ungodly wives, false teachers, pimp preachers, judge Judys, lawyers, etc. It is all legalized spiritual abuse. Christians suffer for Christ sake. Divorce is not a sin if one is or was involved in a marriage not sanctioned by God. Mark 10:9, What God has brought together let no man separate; is a commandment to anyone attempting to destroy the sanctity of marriage. A church or court wedding does not necessarily make a marriage, it is simply a legalized shack up! However, love is inclusive enough to cover spiritual abuse.
kel gens
It really is irrelevant what agreements where made prior to marriage. Couples would have to know the future in order to cover all base...."impossible, so I see this issue being a non contesting issue. When couples are married for long periods of time, (lets say 15 yrs), as time goes by, people become educated...people change...education for some is a slow processs, for others it comes natural...but eventually it happens, opinions begin to form. should those opinions become opposing to your spouses opinion, well there are now conflicts injected into the marriage...once those conflicts start, and either party refuses to move from there position...the conflicts manifest themselfs into differant areas of the marriage. spouses begin to look at the other in differant forms of light. If one spouse has a controling attribute about them, they will take measure to prove themselves right....one of those measures in my situation is alleged domestic abuse. Spiritual Abuse to say the least...how do argue this my friend?
Joseph Turner
I understand what you are saying. In that particular instance I was talking of ideals, but in this fallen world, whatever good intentions or ideals we have, it is not always possible. It was not my intent to make light of your situation. It is a hard situation, and I am not married, though I am contemplating a marriage of my own with someone, and we do argue about things and sometimes over the course of 7 hours we will be fine, break up, make up, and be fine. Not ideal, but considering our backgrounds and past experiences we have determined that we are a rather good fit for each other, especially since we both acknowledge that both of us have things to work on and strong personalities in our own ways. I believe that during our dating stage, despite the arguments, is a good testing ground to strengthen our level of commitment to ourselves and to God. My understanding is that rocky times are pretty much guaranteed, it is how we handle them that makes or breaks us, and that is why I'm thankful to God. One of the things I realized about me is that it is important to maintain my personal relationship with Christ, and to encourage my girlfriend to do the same and for us to pray together. Communication, especially the willingness to do so, is important. Is she willing to talk? Is the marriage written off? No middle ground is possible? Sometimes people need to air things out. It is not an easy situation you are in; I'm praying for you brother and I hope things turn out for the best.
John Krysiuk
Hi Kel
Not to argue any point but to make this observation true about my marriage true about my walk with GOD. Here are the self imposed difficulties with both which are the same in both for me as I perceived them. The very first thing that happens is some issue Your heart identifies comes up. In and on that issue whatever it is emotional which is the easiest to deal with or moral which is hardest YOU believing YOU are right solidly and powerfully plant your spiritual and moral feet. There is nothing wrong with standing except it is not moving forward and refuses even to turn around to look most times. The problem really begins the moment YOU decide to take on all comers of all types from YOUR position. The moment that stance is embraced you have walled off ALL other things of almost every type and unless the wall is breached a desolate and unforgiving place is arrived at. Sadly pain for ALL involved resides there and no one who retains and acts on the indignation gets out alive. You are handed over to the torturers until the whole debt is paid. I could elaborate tremendously on this there is SO MUCH to say. I will make this statement by no means at all accusatory. Examine where you have abandoned Love. Examine first the value of everyone and every thing affected by every stance you take. Remembering that Jesus Christ put His very self between all our sins and faults and their consequences. As fathers and husbands and champions of love in our families we MUST do the same.
kel gens
Well, I must say...the apostle never flighted anywhere to avoid being persecuted, they always stayed in the fight and look what happened to them.
kel gens
John, I appreciate your input.. however, I do believe we have a deadlock situation. I have offered to "agree to disagree" with her and move on and forgive and forget. I am in a place now where my spouse, has used man made LAWS of this country to coerce me into her line of thinking. Its called Alleged Domestic Abuse, and if anybody on this board has been thru this, then you know what i am talking about. It is wrenching, it test every aspects of your faith and it has the abiltity to cause one not to think straight. My spouse...utlizing the LAW (either agree with me or I gone kind of attitude..will continue to contrive allegations agianst me) until her point is well recieved...precious children are invovled and it makes my mind spin when she come out and told me she has never loved me over the course 25+yrs and 3 children later....if divorce comes, I believe I am strong enough for that, however, it is my young children that I have bonded to so deeply that i could not live without....Not only am i in spritial war with my spouse ( as ridiculoius as that sounds) I am also litigating this in the Kangaroo Courts of Law in this country. We all know what the scripture says about lawyers and the courts...I have been dragged into something that i cannot escape and it is all beyond my wishes. I am not on this board to seek sympathy by no means...I would like to know if it is even remotely possible for the courts or spouse to prosecuted me for the reason of "Spiritual Abuse".